“They have no democratic power”: conversation between Macron and putin 4 days before the war

On February 20, four days before the russian invasion, French reporters tapped one of the telephone conversations between French President Emmanuel Macron and russian dictator vladimir putin.

Four months after the beginning of the war, the media published a full transcript of the conversation, reports RFI.

“To be honest, I wanted to play hockey, now I'm talking to you from the gym,” putin told Macron after a nine-minute conversation.

Neither the Elysee Palace nor the kremlin has officially confirmed the authenticity of the transcript, which was leaked to the French media. However, there are already excerpts of the video from which the transcript was made – a fragment of the talks was shown on the French TV channel France 5. The report was made at the Elysee Palace by journalist Guy Lagache for the documentary “President, Europe, War”. The negotiations are promised to be shown in full on June 30 on another public TV channel – France 2.

On February 20, Emmanuel Macron offered putin a meeting with US President Joe Biden in Geneva “in the coming days.” This meeting didn't take place – two days later the kremlin announced the recognition of the independence of the so-called “DNR-LNR”, and later the beginning of a “special military operation.”

“What can I tell you? You see with your own eyes what is happening. You and Chancellor Scholz said that Zelensky was ready to make a gesture, that he had prepared a bill to implement the Minsk agreements. But our dear colleague Zelensky is not doing anything, he is lying to you. I don't know if you heard his statements that Ukraine should get nuclear weapons,” putin began the conversation. 

In fact, Zelensky only announced that Kyiv wanted to convene a summit of the state members of Budapest Memorandum and would demand additional security guarantees for Ukraine, and Kyiv's intention to regain its “nuclear status” was only an assumption of the russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.

“And I heard you saying at a press conference in Kyiv that the Minsk agreements need to be reconsidered,” putin continued. Behind the scenes, Macron's advisers said that the French president did not demand such a thing.

Macron: “Vladimir, I will say at once that I did not say that. Neither in Berlin, nor in Kyiv and Paris.”

putin: “Listen, Emmanuel, I don't understand what your problem with the separatists is. At least they did everything necessary to start a constructive dialogue with the Ukrainian authorities,” putin stated.

Macron: “I don't know where your lawyer studied law. I just look at the texts and try to apply them. And which lawyer can say that in a sovereign state, the texts of laws are proposed by separatist groups, not by democratically elected authorities?!”

putin: “[In Ukraine] there is no government elected democratically. They came to power as a result of a bloody coup, with murders, arsons, and people burnt alive. Your Zelensky is from this team.”

Macron: “We don't care what the separatists offer. We demand that Ukrainian laws be observed!”

putin: “Listen to me carefully. You hear? I repeat to you that the separatists, as you call them, reacted to the proposals of the Ukrainian authorities [...] You need to make an effort.”

Macron. “The situation on the line of contact is very tense, I called Zelensky yesterday and asked him to calm down. I will call him again, I urge everyone to calm down – from social networks to the Armed Forces. But can you calm your army? There were bombings yesterday. There needs to be peace in the region for successful dialogue. How [long] do you plan to conduct military exercises?

putin.“As it was planned earlier.”

putin. “Probably tonight, but we will leave the troops at the border until the situation settles down.”

As journalists found out, Macron made two proposals to putin – a meeting with Biden in Geneva and “to take into account his demands about NATO and Ukraine.”

In response, putin promised that he would “be delighted to meet with European and American leaders”, but the meeting should be worked out first.

“It is good that you agree to do this. I suggest that our teams make a joint statement based on the results of this call,” Macron proposed.

In response, putin said: “First I will play hockey, and then I will talk to my advisers.”

The communiqué was really issued, and RIA Novosti wrote that the leaders promised to “work on de-escalation in eastern Ukraine.”

This is not the first time that fragments of talks between the two presidents were leaked to the media. In September 2020, the media reported that putin had called russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny “a simple Internet mess” who could take the poisonous substance “Novichok” (russian: “Новичо́к”, lit. “newcomer” – trans.) himself. Then the French newspaper Le Monde called the conversation between putin and Macron a “dialogue of the deaf”, which angered the French president.